Steph: You're listening to Travel Agent Chatter, Volume 32.

So Travel Agent Chatter is an audio series produced by the team here at Host Agency Reviews each and every quarter. We do share our podcast feed for those that are listening in on the audio version. We share it with our other podcast, The Friday 15, where every Friday at 12 p. m. Central Time, we answer the industry questions that you have submitted. But, Friday 15 is Season 2 and Travel Agent Chatter is Season 1, so make sure to always check back every quarter for new episodes.

Now today's episode opens up a whole new world of possibilities for travel advisors, because if you have ever wondered what it would be like to start and run a travel business while living in another country, well our guest today, Grace Camoglu, is doing just that from Switzerland, serving primarily North American clients.

So Grace made the leap from tech product management to travel advising in 2023 and hasn't looked back since So you're gonna hear about her how her background in product management has helped her optimize her booking process By tracking and fixing the time sucks in the booking process, which is really neat.

And what also makes her story pretty fascinating is that she's navigated the unique challenges of being an international advisor. Everything from dealing with the time zone differences that puts most of her clients calls in the evening hours To selecting the right host agency as an expat not located in the United States. Should she go with a U. S. based one or find one abroad and everything to finding community in a country where she doesn't have the local network of [00:02:00] travel professionals.

The other thing we'll hear about is Grace embracing fees from day one. So she started out with charging 200. And she is now charging 500 per household for a 7 to 10 day trip.

And she's going to share with us her journey, including how she balances her business with her family responsibilities and managed to run her office for her agency efficiently, 6, 000 miles away from her clients. And for Grace, travel is a family tradition. Her father worked at a travel agency in Taiwan before immigrating to the United States, and he instilled a love of exploration from a very early age.

And now she's passing that passion along to her own children. While she's building a business that works for her unique her family's unique set of circumstances now whether you're Considering a move abroad or you just are considering jumping into FITs And this is especially if you're a new advisor jumping into FITs right away Or you just want to find ways for a better work life balance, this episode is going to be packed with actionable insights that you won't want to miss And for icing on the cake, Grace will share with us some insider tips for your client's next trip to Switzerland.

So without further ado, let's get on to the show.

We'll be back in a moment after a quick word from our sponsor.

Thanks to our Sponsor

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Opening

Steph:

hi everyone, this is Steph Lee, the founder of Host Agency Reviews, coming at you from Tucson, Arizona. So today's episode is all about entrepreneurship without borders. We'll be talking to a travel advisor who has built her business from Switzerland and discovering what it takes to serve clients from halfway around the world.

Steph: So Grace Camoglu is the founder of Your Travel Story and just two years, she's built an impressive business that specializes in European travel for North American clients, mostly families. Um, and being based in Switzerland has given her some really unique insights and on the ground expertise that sets her apart in the marketplace.

Links and resources for today's show. Anything we talk about and mention, they can be found in the show notes by going to hostagencyreviews. com slash TAC and clicking on episode 32

For a roadmap of today's conversation. This is what we're going to be covering. First, we'll talk about the beginnings and living abroad.

Then we'll move into balancing family and business. We'll talk about some of her operations. And then we'll move into marketing and sales. We will talk about the technology that she uses to run her business. And then we will wrap things up as always with some wisdom and indispensable who has been indispensable to the growth of her agency.

So, Grace, welcome to Travel Agent Chatter.

Grace Camoglu: Hi, thank you so much for having me.

Steph: Well, we are thrilled to have you on. Um, and I wanted to start off with kind of going into your background because you have a really interesting story about travel has been in your family for your generation, and then your dad was an avid, avid traveler, and he actually worked at a travel agency in Taiwan.

Before he [00:06:00] came to the U. S. So tell us a little bit about your family, your history and travel and how that kind of influenced you to where you are today.

Grace Camoglu: Sure. So I grew up traveling and I've had the privilege of being able to do a lot with my parents growing up. My, my parents are actually not in the travel business, but they, but my dad, one of his part time jobs actually was, uh, in a travel agency in Taipei.

And we had. Heard stories about how when he decided to move to America, this is back in the 70s, that for the travel agency, their farewell gift to him was actually a TWA plane ticket. Which, uh, yeah, it's, uh, it's And so it was really, it was really neat to just hear him talk about how You know, he had a round the world trip.

It was, it was probably the quite a few stops along the way, but in the seventies to be able to get a plane ticket and to come from Taipei to New York, it's, it's just, I think it sounds like it would have been an incredible adventure. And so I think my dad always had this travel. Bug in him. Uh, and so my parents did we did move around the u.s. A fair bit and then eventually they settled down in Atlanta, Georgia for Starting up their business and that's where my sister and I grew up for the most part and once we Once the business was going and they could have some more funds we were able to then go back to taiwan to visit family and then We started being able to add in a little bit of trips to Europe.

My dad's a history buff and I, I think there's just so much about it that, about the world that he really enjoys and, and Western Europe is, is one of those. And so we would just kind of actually alternate between, um, Taiwan for the most part. Later on, when we got older, we, We did some other parts of Asia, but [00:08:00] Taipei, and then it would be somewhere in Europe, um, and sometimes there'll be some other places.

We also traveled a lot in the, um, in the U. S. as well, but it was just one of those things that I grew up being able to just enjoy a lot of road trips, a lot of plane trips. I actually was probably one of the few kids that enjoyed plane food. This is back, you know, in the 80s, uh, when, 80s, 90s, I don't think.

You know, there was plain food was not, not, uh,

Steph: not like it is today.

Grace Camoglu: So, but I, it just, it was a fun adventure. So I'd always just loved. Um, traveling and then and eventually planning it when I was getting older, too.

Steph: Well, so you came from the tech project management side of things before you started your travel story.

So how did you make that transition? Because it was just a few years ago. And, you know, right after the pandemic. So how did you make that transition as well as the decision to become a travel advisor?

Grace Camoglu: Yeah, so I so I was actually in um product management so in tech where I was basically working around products bringing them to market, uh working with the engineers and in developing the products and and I was living in the bay area with my husband at the time and so You know, we lived in the city and then we moved down to the silicon valley And when my husband got an offer to come do an assignment here in Zurich, uh, We decided to give it a chance.

And so I was still actually working in product and thankfully back then, and this is more than 10 years ago, my company at the time allowed me to work remotely, uh, for them for that time. And, you know, back then it wasn't really. As popular to do remote work on a on a longer term basis and that overseas.

So it was really nice that I got a chance to still keep my my job that I had. And we had a toddler at the time. And so it was just one of those where we had this year. [00:10:00] I'm not gonna lie. I think the first nine months are pretty tough on me. I think I think there's something really romantic about being an expat or being on assignment.

And, and yes, you can have so many things that are really, you can experience. But I think on the other hand, there's a, there is a little bit of a reality to it. Um, so I guess from that standpoint, being a, in your parent, as well as still working a full time job, but now you're nine hours apart from your engineers and, and headquarters.

There's, uh, you're not getting out and meeting a lot of people locally. Uh, and so I think there was, um, some adjustment I had to make. And then obviously there's some, there's some culture and language parts, but, uh, you know, I think it certainly was not as big of adjustment, I'm sure then compared to, you know, my parents coming from Taiwan, um, in the 70s.

So, you know, there was an adjustment, but when the time came for us to finish up the assignment, there was the. Opportunity of going back or staying and and we did ultimately decide obviously to stay because it's been over 10 years now. We're still here Um, but then we needed to work on what am I going to do now because With the the job that I had, uh, it wasn't something that I think would have been really sustainable going forward and um, and so We decided I would, I needed to take a break anyways, because my visa didn't allow me to work actually for, uh, locally.

So we, I volunteered a little bit. We also had another baby. And so it was one of those, you know, great timing of things where I did find eventually, um, a product management related organization, uh, locally that worked with PMs all around the world. And they were. Very similar to what hard does for the travel community, but for product, um, in terms of education and events and all that.

And so I did it with them. [00:12:00] And, and then soon it became time where the kids were all, you know, older and I'd been there five years and I thought this is a good time to start my. Next adventure. And I'd always thought I wanted to start something like on my own. And I think it was just one of those where, what do I want to start it in?

So I think it was, it was actually more of always a matter of that part of it. And so I thought, okay, travel, something that I'd always just love to plan and, and do. And I like planning for other people also. And And I thought, okay, if I want to do something in travel and you know, we have a young family, so travel with families.

Well, if I want to do a travel related business, would I, would I like it if I also wanted to do it with other people, you know, uh, eventually if it's, if it's seniors or honeymooners, or if it's a B2B, like working with other companies, is it a product in, uh, you know, in travel? And I thought those all still sound really good.

Okay. But then I thought, well, do I want to do something with families? And then I thought, well, let's go the same, you know, exercise. And what if I work with, um, families and it's going to be either working with companies that serve families or working with families directly consulting, you know, is it working with, uh, college admissions or sleep consulting or time management or, you know, product or service?

Like I just thought about, you know, Child care related things. And I just thought, Oh, you know, these are all really important topics. But I think travel is where I would like to go. And so I thought, Yes, that is that is where that is where I'm going. And then I thought it was just very natural for me to just start with working with families.

and helping them come to Europe, especially Switzerland. So it was, it was fairly straightforward for me to find my niche. Um, and obviously now it's, it's broader than just helping families come to Switzerland, but it is [00:14:00] for starting out. It was something that was really, um, helpful in terms of what I needed to look for in terms of the trainings and et cetera is knowing family travel, FITs coming, uh, helping families do FITs, uh, coming to Switzerland.

Steph: And you had mentioned, and if you don't know what FITs are, for those that are tuning in, we will put a link in the show notes. Um, to our article on what an F. I. T. Is. But you had mentioned to one of the things that's really neat is you felt like the support from your family at the very beginning. Um, you know, some people can really struggle, especially when you're going into travel.

You get a lot of that. Oh, do people even use travel agents anymore? But you said your family was totally supportive.

Grace Camoglu: Yes, I, you know, I think that yeah. That question is, is asked a lot. It is. You know, and I think the part for me that I'm just really, really fortunate, uh, with is that the family has, has, has always been very supportive of that.

I think, first of all, really supportive of the fact that I wanted to start something new. I think we'll just start there and, and that part. It was, you know, I, I could not do it with obviously without my husband's support on, on many levels, least of which is the financial ones, but the, if anything, he actually pushed me to, it was just like, I know you were thinking about something, you know, this is a great time.

And, and so he knew I'd been, he knew I'd always been thinking about with my parents. Same thing, but they're coming from an entrepreneurship background. So, so if anything, they're always just like nothing better than having your own business. So I think I could have been selling, I mean, anything and they would have been happy if I just tried to something on my own.

Um, and, and my sister, yeah. Like my sister, my close friends. I, I, I, I think all my, the, the friends of family, uh, everybody's been very supportive in that. Um, I, I think if anything, No [00:16:00] one's really said to my face, uh, about if there's, uh, people still use child, child providers. I, I get that from, from other, you know, other contexts and not in a mean way.

I think more in a information gathering way. But I think where I find it, um, useful is trying to explain, you know, there's a difference between a travel agent and a travel advisor, um, in the way that perhaps they're thinking about it. And I try to explain how I can help. Uh, and especially one of the big things that I do is I help families that are coming to Europe for the first time in general, like for the adults.

And then sometimes it's actually coming for the first time with their kids. So maybe they've gone to Europe before as as um, couples or even as singles. And then they're coming out with kids for the first time. And sometimes it's not even just going to Europe for the first time, but it's also going overseas period for the first time.

And so it's just, you know, I'm not only an advisor, but I'm also someone to help support them for the whole full end to end journey. And I think once I explain a little bit more about how I help the families, then I think people understand that a little bit more about what I do.

Steph: I think that's. A great point that one, you had a very specific niche that you thought about and you're passionate about.

And then two, you honed your elevator pitch, which is really important to be able to like, I mean, I would think most people would understand the value of what you bring. If you say I helped first time families that are coming to Europe with kids. Understand how to navigate Europe with kids, even if it's like whether it's their first time or if they've come before as singles, like you said, but that's a very specific way.

Um, and also a very specific way to help people remember it so that they can refer people over.

Grace Camoglu: Yes, exactly. Exactly.

Steph: Um, I'll also link to our article. Mary has a great article on writing an elevator pitch for your agency, for those that are listening [00:18:00] in that are newer. But Grace, can you chat with us a little bit about your timeline for getting your business started?

So what those first steps look like for you? Because I know you, uh, So you started in January and you did host week, right? Yes.

Grace Camoglu: Yes. Um, I think it was 2023. So I had been thinking about it the few months before, um, in 2022, but in 2023, I think I stumbled across the host week announcement. Thank goodness. Uh, and so I thought, all right, let's do this.

And, um, and so then I, I joined in and then I think that's how I learned about the concept of a host agency. Actually, I was just doing research on just Travel, like trends, benchmarks, what are, you know, what are all the, just those types of, um, that level of research, but then in terms of like the, you know, starting business, of course, you know, you can think about, okay, we'll start a business and then we try to get travel.

Okay. But I think there's so many. Tactical points there that I was going to have to just try to start to figure out and and reach out to people so I did reach out to a couple people that I I knew at least in the space. And so when I found host week then obviously the content across the whole week, you know, of course is educational part that was amazing.

Frankly, most of it was over my head. And then there was the, um, there was also then all the interviews with the host agencies. And I think that was where I thought, Oh, this is definitely, you know, of course we can go the model of, you know, on your own versus with the host. And I just thought I need to go with the host.

So that was a very easy way that I knew that was one fork in the road that I, I knew which path I needed to get on. And then after that, I thought, Well, okay, I will need to do my own research about host agency that can actually take me because I'm, I'm overseas and [00:20:00] etc. And the other part I decided to do was the, well, as you know, I took your class.

So the, I think it's called now the seven day accelerator course. So yeah, seven day setup accelerator. Yes. Um, and so I actually, you were launching that and I just thought, you know, this would be really, really helpful to actually just do. I did the, the, the email version of it first, um, and then walk through it.

And then I just thought, I think I need to do the course. And I think I told you this before. I mean, there is like, There's so many great reasons why to do it, but the two big reasons why I chose to do it was I knew, one, there would be a cohort. So I have other people with me going through this and, and, you know, meeting new people and creating this network and of people.

And then the other part was actually just having the ability to get access to people who, who, who knew what they were doing. Um, you know, so I, I was able to meet you and Rita and. And then obviously all the guest lecturers that you had and so I think it was just a level of now I know people that I can go to to ask for help.

Because I, I can tell you, I think as the first time starting, frankly, any business, just knowing where to go for those resources. I mean, I think I Googled probably the same topic many times, I guess, thinking I would get a different answer because I didn't know how it would apply to me because of this situation now or that situation.

And so. It was like, okay, let's stop talking to myself and thinking about this. And let's just, now, now I have some people that I can ask. And, and that was probably, it was, uh, invaluable. So I think from that standpoint, having that class, um, and then I started, once I signed up with my host agency, I did end up.

Doing a lot of supplier trainings. This was the Switzerland Tourism Board, um, certification. Obviously, I did that. I [00:22:00] also, my husband's Turkish, so we go to Turkey a lot. So I do work on, on Turkey as a focus, as well as Italy and some other surrounding countries, because So it's really small. So there are people that like to come here and always go to another country.

So I did a lot of the tourism board trainings also for the countries that I was particularly interested in or knew that I would be probably working on a fair bit. So yeah,

Steph: well, one of the things I think, like you said, it's so romantic to think about being an expat and being like, Oh, I can live overseas and I can work from anywhere, but there are some real life challenges that come when you're based overseas, but all of your clients are North American and you're in Europe.

So how do you, I know you said the biggest challenge for you, I think, is the time zones. So how do you manage that? And some of the other challenges.

Grace Camoglu: Yeah, the time, I think that's one where, you know, when you're here for like a couple months or summer, it's, it's, uh, it's manageable, but I think if you're here, and this is where you live, then it's just a, you know, eyes wide open coming into it and knowing, uh, that you will be taking a lot of meetings in the evening if you choose to do so.

So, for, for me, And I think, you know, maybe I'll preface it with, you know, both, uh, my husband and I have worked with American companies while living here. So I think we kind of already knew the, the, the nighttime evening, uh, set up. Uh, but with this, with the, you know, this being my business and me choosing my hours.

I knew that I could do some meetings and try to get them mostly in the afternoon, but us coming from the San Francisco Bay Area, that's already nine hours, and so if I work with anybody from there, there's just, there's just no way that I would just be limiting them to meetings up to 9am so that I can finish by 6pm.

It's just, it just wouldn't happen. And so then I thought, you know what, I'm yeah, I will have [00:24:00] take meetings in the afternoon, so basically before the, the school, you know, schools out and stuff. And then I add a few meetings, certain days of the week for after the kids go to bed. And now the older ones much older.

So, you know, she. She doesn't need to be tucked in sadly, but you know, so then I can sometimes take them a little bit earlier, but it's just more about that, that it's just, I don't try to do it every day, but I do leave a few blocks open in the, in the evenings and trying to figure out to make sure the, it fits for the timing that's needed.

I end up also working with a lot of East coasters. And so I think we find a nice balance. And so I think I take a look at where I think the, Discovery call timings will be coming in and sometimes I just go into my calendar and adjust it a little bit accordingly and things of that nature, but generally, I just try to manage it with not making it open all the time.

But you know, I'm not also taking a discovery call every day anyway, so

Steph: yeah,

Grace Camoglu: it's fine, you know, and I can generally tell when a call is going to, what, how, how the. Um, how they're going to be falling. So I just adjust my daytime schedule a little bit more accordingly.

Steph: Well, you had mentioned to that, um, you know, when you're starting your travel agency, not every host agency is going to take you cause there are host agencies in Europe.

Um, they're, they're not as popular of a model are the, but they are becoming increasingly popular in Europe. Um, but how did you decide to go with a,

Grace Camoglu: So I think maybe I'll, I'll mention really quickly, maybe even one step back in terms of why I decided on a U. S. one versus the other, other ones. So once I, We can realize [00:26:00] host host host agency model was for me. Um, I basically thought, well, you know, I think there's a I heard about a host agency in Switzerland even there's some in the UK and then.

Obviously in the U. S. And I, there might be more, I guess, in Europe now, but back then I didn't really come across them or they didn't come on my radar, I guess. So those were the three areas. Um, and what I realized was if I knew, thankfully, I already knew who I wanted to target. Because I, I knew it was going to be, um, North Americans and, and starting with Americans in particular, just because that's, that's how I grew up.

That's, I know, I know how Americans like to travel. Um, I thought at some point it would be great and interesting if I could also work with my community here, but I knew that that's, It requires, um, different ways you're going to be marketing different ways. You're going to be selling the travel and advising and, and just thought focus.

So that was one. And as I was looking more into the different host agencies from the different areas and, and doing some, um, calls and stuff, I realized that working with a us one would be best for me because of the, um, the clients. So time zone wise, obviously, Much better if I were in the UK or, or, um, European ones, but I, I thought, you know, there's always what matters are recorded.

So if I work with American ones and all the trains are always done either in the middle of my night or too late for me or during pickup times, it's okay. Most of them are recorded and it's just a fact of life. But what I found was that it was, it was so helpful because the people that you're talking to, and it's not even just my, my host agency, but also any of the.

Groups that I'm in the people that the other travel advisors I'm connected to are also working with. the same type of clients and not in the sense of FIT clients. I mean, uh, in the sense of, uh, Americans [00:28:00] or frankly, North Americans. So, you know, they could be doing safaris, FITs, cruises, but you're, you're talking about people that are coming from the same type of, um, of, of, of background from that standpoint.

So I think that was where I thought. Okay, U. S. host agency, that is, that is where I need to go and be most helpful. And sometimes they give you marketing materials. It's already very much to the, to the North American audience from that standpoint. Uh, and then when I did meet, reach out to the host agencies, I, I actually used the spreadsheet that you all had, um, in one of your articles, I think.

Oh, yeah, yeah. It's like a link to it. That's a fun one. Yeah. Um, so I went through the questions that you should ask, how you rank them. Um, and, and so I, I reached out to a few. I mean, it was really easy to get the no, we cannot work with, um, people who are not living here in the US. So that was, you know, unfortunately, many of the folks on my, on my top, uh, uh, the ones I was most interested in reaching out to, um, they didn't take it.

And then there was others also that I was also really interested in. And so it just ended up being the, uh, They fell into all a 

few buckets, either the they just don't take any, um, any folks that live overseas. Um, they will take you overseas as long as you have a US LLC. And I'm actually registered in Switzerland, which I think is quite great.

from what I feel like in my talks to other folks living remotely. Um, and then there's also where you can live overseas. Um, and I'm assuming it's, maybe you have a social security number at least, uh, but you can just have a business US business address. Um, and there might be a couple, there's other, a few, maybe a couple other combinations.

Um, and then there was also the, The consideration of whether what kind of suppliers that you can work with. So I knew because I'm living here and obviously my local community are there. They are not Americans here. Um, not [00:30:00] all of them. And so there are suppliers where that is quite limiting. And so maybe I need to work with other suppliers to or maybe I need to be able to I mean, just various reasons why.

And so some, um, host agencies do, did have the criteria that you can only work with their folks and their suppliers. And so, you know, with all that said, then obviously I, I found who I'm with now, which is a TPI travel planners international. So I, I worked with TPI, um, that provided me what I needed across the board for what I thought, uh, would be good for me to.

To have a starting out and also for for growing

Steph: You you bring up a really great point about the Different variety of ways host approach someone that's an american citizen living abroad Um, or even if you're not an american citizen and want to join a u. s host Um, it's if you're not a u. s citizen and want to join a u.

s host you're gonna have trouble finding one If you're a US citizen, there's going to be a whole bunch of different ways that hosts approach it. But, but one of the things to really think about, I think, Grace, you called to mind the, the fact that all of your colleagues at your host agency are selling the same products as you and have the same market as you, as in US travelers.

And that is so helpful because. Even between U. S. and Canada, the tour operators that they use in Canada are very different from the ones in the U. S. and your U. S. host, um, unless they have a Canadian branch, are one, not going to have those higher commissions with a different country's tour operators.

They're also not going to have the connections and the knowledge on how to do those. I know when I worked at my parents agency and we had a couple Canadian agents that, that worked with us, like, I didn't know what Sunwing was and Air Canada Vacations, although you can Picture it what it is, but you know, I didn't know anything about them.

I didn't have any contacts. So [00:32:00] those are things definitely to consider. Um, but, but one of the advantages that you have is that you're living in the destination that a lot of your clients want to go to, or you have visit them frequently or have connections there. So how do you leverage. Um, this unique position that you're in for your business to help you get clients.

Grace Camoglu: Yes, I consider myself very lucky. I, I, I feel like, you know, I try to tell people come play in my playground, my backyard rather. Um, I, so I think for me, there's a couple of things. One is probably my, probably from a marketing Advising and even social media standpoint, I perhaps am more on the educational and what's going on day in the life type of approach.

And I think that's just because I feel like I can just walk outside and it's a beautiful day in Zurich and take a picture of that or something that we're just doing as a family. That I think is just really helpful for people to know who are not, either they have not been here before or want to see and, and sometimes it's, and then because I am, I've been here for a long enough time, it's not just like touristy spots, you know, it's, it's a day in the life as someone who actually lives here, you know, we, and, and it's fun when it's actually combined.

So, for example, Yes, I live here, but I still like going into Zurich Old Town. I, I still like, I mean, I still like going to the chocolate factory. And, and so, you know, it's just, there are things that I will still do. Um, and, and it's not just like a touristy thing. And then, yes, of course, there's some things that maybe, you know, you would go only if you have visitors come and stuff.

But at the end of the day, there's just. learn something every time. And so I think from that standpoint, I, I, I perhaps have a little bit, [00:34:00] I don't know if it's different, but I guess that's just how my approach is. Uh, and then when I mentioned like the advising side, so there, there's probably where I would probably advise clients maybe to do some things that I would do because.

That I would, I would do because I live here. So perhaps it's not always, you know, maybe a very popular train pass because it's really convenient and, and most travelers maybe just get it. I, because I'm comfortable taking the trains and how the ticket system works and everything, I might just be like, you know, I can tell you're a little bit more budget conscious, you know, we can optimize for that, uh, and, and do these things.

And, and then I'll give them instructions on how to do it. And it's very straightforward, but it's because I'm very comfortable in doing that now. You know, could I do it for a different country? Probably not as much. And so I would do that for Switzerland or, you know, advise a couple things that, um, That may be something that I would do with my family, um, and, and tell some clients to do, but maybe it's not the, the, on the tourist spotlight, uh, real in that sense.

Yeah,

Steph: I, I know you too, um, we'll link to this as well, but you did a webinar recently that was specifically for advisors wanting to learn about Switzerland. So what would be like three tips, two or three tips that you would give an advisor that wants to be able to have like local knowledge that they can pass around to their clients or like help them in, in crafting their FITs?

Grace Camoglu: Thanks for bringing up my webinar. Um, so, uh, yes. So actually one thing I did do, uh, was to lean in on my being here. So I, I am a destination specialist for Switzerland. I forgot to mention that. Um, and so I, I thought that with the types of questions that I get, it would be really interesting to just try to start compiling them.

And I, and I do have on my website, like a blog where I write a lot of the content [00:36:00] and, and actually. As a, as a newer travel advisor, I thought that would be some way to help me get known and get out there and stuff is just writing content since it's something to try to help build the brand. And so when it came to being a destination specialist and also just even the webinar, it was just sharing a lot of things that I thought would be very helpful for travel advisors to know as they're getting ready for discovery calls or.

Advising a client through a trip. So let's say you want a three. Um, okay, so one thing would be that I think people know that Switzerland tends to be a little bit more expensive and so I think there's a level of just letting them know, setting expectations is probably the biggest part here and it's probably the same for a lot of other places but what I like to tell them, the clients, is usually if you are wanting a, you know, three star hotel, it's probably going to be about four star price somewhere.

Four star hotel, it's probably going to be a five star hotel. So just kind of a Framing, framing that conversation around budget to give them an idea. And, and then the other side of it is, um, there are plenty of really nice places, but there are also older infrastructure, so there's probably no air conditioning.

And I'm also gonna probably add in there, probably not an elevator, but, um, the air conditioning part is also, again, setting expectations. You're going to, you probably, if you're going, if your client is going in the summertime, it's just really good to know if air conditioning is a must have or a nice to have.

And again, this goes in line with what I just mentioned about the stars. So most three stars will not have air conditioning. I know of one that does, but, um, that's about it. And the others generally don't. Four star, there are some that do not have it, and especially in the mountains, um, and You know, a lot of people like to visit the mountains here.

So I think that's one thing that [00:38:00] really surprises people is that there's a lot of really nice popular hotels that are four star that don't have AC. Um, and then, and then there's of course some that do, and so they're more limited. Hence why it's really important that, you know, if that's one of their must haves and then you need to book it early and, um, and just prepare them for the Increase in budget, probably, maybe, um, in that sense. There's also a, a little caveat that I don't think a lot of people are aware of, um, and that's that in some places, like Zurich Old Town, for example, there's some regulations around the, uh, the amount of Temperature change that you could have from the outside temperature.

So call it like 5 degrees or something, but your room cannot, you know, your room thermostat can't be cooled down to, you know, below that range. So you won't be getting, you know, It's 90 degrees outside and you want to make your room 70 degrees. It's not going to happen. Um, and so I think from that standpoint, people just have to be understand that.

And there's a lot of hotels that provide fans, but I think it's just more of a setting expectations. It's going to be in the summer. I mean, last year was a really rainy summer. So you just, you never know about the weather, but if it's going to be summer. Chances are it'll get warm, even if there is some A. C. in there and plan accordingly. You know, you just dress accordingly. I mean, I think 10 percent of the housing here has air conditioning. So most of us who live here don't have a C. N. L. Um, it's just you. You just adapt and, you know, yeah,

Steph: yeah. But I feel like that those little tidbits like number one setting the expectation, but being able to tell your clients that reinforces the reason why you use a travel advisor because they're able to tell you that type of level of information, um, that makes you feel more comfortable and that you're mentally prepared, um, on your trip that [00:40:00] if you like it to be 70 degrees out or 60 degrees out when it's 90 up, but that's not going to happen.

So, um, nobody is upset and everybody is prepared.

Balancing Family & Business

Steph: Uh, well, let's move into our next segment, which is going to be kind of talking about balancing your family life with your work life. Um, and so you're not just running your travel story. You have two kids. I think they're eight and 11. Is that correct? Yes.

Okay. So how do you kind of, balance the demands of your business with your family responsibilities, especially because, you know, normally people have, when their kids are in school, they have the time off where they can work with clients, but yours is not like that because the kids are out of school and that's the time that the U S where you're going to be working with clients.

Grace Camoglu: Yes, I think that it requires, um, I think a lot of planning and patience, but I would say probably that's very relevant to probably everyone in that standpoint. But, you know, to your specific question, I think. How we do it is we just try to stay ahead of what the schedule is, uh, in terms of what they are.

And as I mentioned before, I, I generally have an idea of how my, you know, the number of discovery calls and, and where it's going to fall in the calendar. So I think it's just really understanding those and how it falls in with what the, it's expected for the kids and what they need to have ready and everything.

Uh, I think when it comes to balancing it, then I think it. There's just a level of needing to have the kids, you know, I think maybe almost call it like a buy in but more like just getting them involved. I think that helps with with that. Um, I, you know, the kids are now older, obviously, but they were, you know, younger before.

And so I think there's a level of just knowing when you need to. Ask for help. So whether [00:42:00] that is in the form of, um, you know, hiring someone to, to, to watch the kids, or perhaps it's helping having someone to help out with some part of the business. And, you know, so you're not doing everything right as a parent, can, you know, you do everything as a business owner, you're doing everything.

So there's like this feeling of, you need to know when it's the right time to invest. Um, Personally or professionally in getting some help. So, you know, cleaner or accountant, you know, it's just a lot of things. And then as the kids get a little bit older. We have them help out more, and that really has helped me, for example, because, um, my husband also travels a lot, and so I think for us, just being able to, sometimes I need to have, sometimes there's something I can't avoid, then I need to have the older one help me put the younger one to bed, but on the other hand, you know, 11 year olds are very happy to do that, and She feels responsible.

She knows that I'm trusting her to do it. The kids are finding this kind of fun to do, you know, every once in a while. And so, there's just some element of just having the kids involved in that standpoint. And, and not only those types, but just in general chores, right? So, just putting the dishes away, setting the table.

I mean, I think there's many age appropriate chores, uh, that can be done where They're, they're, you know, I think our, our school calls it like a, uh, contributing member of the household. Um, but, you know, it's just like, it's just chores that they, they do. And sometimes I realize that we, they, the kids are, the kids are fully.

Capable of doing these and frankly are probably doing them at school. Um, and I'm just not actually asking to do it at home. And, and I realized when we go to like open house or something that they do all these different things. So you realize, oh, the kids are so much more capable than what you expect. Um, or, or, yeah, and just so I think it's [00:44:00] really good to, to just give them more responsibility and independence and, uh, and I think actually maybe along that line really quickly is.

This might be more of a, uh, a cultural thing, but I think in Switzerland, a cultural or location based thing. So in Switzerland, it's pretty common that the kids start walking to school alone. It's actually expectation that the kids will walk alone by the time they're in kindergarten. So, um, starting from the time they're in kindergarten.

So you'll have. Kids walking, crossing the roads, doing all this stuff, uh, And school age kids are taking trams and buses on their own as well and things. So, you can send, so I used to send like the six year old back then, She'd go to the market in the neighborhood to go buy a couple things. And It'd be great because she finds it's really helpful.

She doesn't wander around because she knows we really need that loaf of bread and that milk. And so we're counting on her so she doesn't start wandering around looking, smelling the flowers. Just talking at the candy store. And, and, you know, making sure she has the right money, getting the change back, and then she comes back and, and I remember once she even told me, Oh, I, I can't reach the bread.

So then I need to ask for someone to help me bring the bread down and, you know, these are kids, they have no problems asking for help and they know they're, they know what they're being tasked to do. And they're like, must get the bread home, who, who's going to help me do this. You know, and, and they get it done and.

Um, and so I think it's just making them feel like they are also really doing some really important tasks and responsibilities. I think it's also really helpful.

Steph: Yeah. And it's, it's, it's amazing too, when you have a culture surrounding you that makes it so that this is possible and they're teaching it to the kids at school.

And so the kids are learning responsibility. You know, it's like when you're in Japan and you see the tiny little children holding hands, like walking by themselves in a, like this would not happen in [00:46:00] Minneapolis.

Operations & Fees

Steph: Uh, well, let's talk about some of the operational aspects of your business. So one thing that. So one of the things that caught my attention is that you have charged fees right from the start. Everybody has different takes on this, but I'd love to hear from you why you decided to charge fees from the very get go.

Um, how your clients responded to this, or if they even cared or noticed at all.

Grace Camoglu: So I, I think when I first started, I had already heard a lot of, uh, different sessions, for example, from either Host Week, but also I think in a lot of the episodes from the podcast series, um, between yours and some others, and also a lot of You know, in the different groups that I'm, I'm in and just so many different people opining on that.

But what was really evident was that for my business model, um, FITs that it would, I would need to charge fees. So I knew that was something that was going to be, it needed to happen. And then it was just more of, okay, now, you know, when I'm so new or later. And I think every. Almost everywhere that I read where they did it they had said, I wished I had done it from the get go or earlier, because it's just so much harder to implement it later.

So I thought, well, You know what, that's a, that's a, that's a really good idea. And also, I think it's a, it's a framing of your mind, especially as a new one, a new person to this. And if you're already going into it thinking, I need to charge a fee, I'm already starting to work on how do I talk about it, discuss it, how it's getting incorporated in my, um, my documents and the materials and all that.

So in that sense, it was just really, It was it was helpful that I already decided this is how I'm going to approach it. I just need to get comfortable with it Uh, so I did I I started with I think [00:48:00] at the very beginning, but I, I did the, you know, discount plan. So I think my first couple of clients, um, I mean, I didn't even have a host agency at the time.

I think, I think I was just, uh, I just had a couple of families that were, uh, really, you know, Willing to take a chance with me. I mean, I knew them so they, they very much trusted me. I think that was the element of it where they were, they were wanting to support me and, and things, but I was like, okay, I'm still learning.

And this is my friend, you know, I'll give you a 50 percent discount and Uh, I think it shows that they are quite aligned clients for me. They, they were just like, don't even give me a discount. Like, uh, I know what value you're going to bring to the table. And part of it is so that I don't have to do this planning.

So I, you know, we'll go for it and it's fine. And so I think that was really helpful, um, in many ways in that. So I started with that and then. I did move up. Um, I knew I, I knew, I knew I would need to anyways, but it was just more of that feeling of when am I going to do it? And is it when I'm comfortable?

And I think it kind of probably several months later, um, after the first season hit the, one of the entrepreneurship, uh, people that I was on a panel with here in Zurich, uh, he had. advise a lot of different startups and different types of industries and everything, but he was just like, so tell me again, what is it that you do?

And you know, the type of service. And, and I think because I'm not sure if I mentioned already, but you know, I do end to end. So it's not only the, the advising and the booking, but I also do the, while they're traveling, I'm also their support available for support. So kind of like a concierge travel advisor.

So he was just like, you know, this is, This is definitely not 200. Um, this is, you need to bring it up. And I think he was just already like, [00:50:00] no. And I was like, I know, even my clients, and I even had some clients tell me it was too low. So I was like, okay, clearly, it's like, I'm being told now. That's a sign.

That's a sign. It's a sign. It's just like, alright. But he was just like, but I can tell, you're quite, You know, like not comfortable with this, but increase it and then do a discount off of it. If you need to then to make you, you know, and then just decrease the discount then if you need to, but that way you're framing it always as the price, the fee is going to be X.

And at the time, I think I then moved it to 400. Um, and so then it was, and then over the course of that, uh, year, I did have a, like, fam, friends and family discount. I had a few different other discounts. It actually got to the point where it was not, it was not very, it almost confused me. I think I was just like, Oh my goodness.

Like. Which one did I do with, you know, and then of course it was all in my templates and all that, it was just, I was like, this is, and then, and then since I changed the base, so I was just like, okay, this was not, um, it was, this is way more

Steph: complicated than I

Grace Camoglu: needed to make it, but I think I also needed that year to figure out where I needed to go and, and I, and by the end of that, um, close to the end of last year, I felt like I'm now ready.

To go to where I thought I I wanted to go, which is 500. And that's where I'm at now. And that was where I from from before even I knew I wanted to get here, but I didn't know the path. But I think I needed that time. I needed the discounts. And so then, you know, I would when I was giving the quote for the fees, I would say, for the most part, I didn't get pushback.

And I think, you know, again, I think I found aligned clients, so they, I think these are people that are all very much appreciative of, um, of what I can do for them and find value in what I can do, and so I think that was where, um, [00:52:00] and so I do 500 for, I do a flat rate 5 to 7 days for one family, and, and you know, I do multi city, multi country FITs, so it's just one of those where I just felt like this feels more, yeah, Close to where I feel.

Comfortable with it too. I I still have to work on on the efficiency side to help make it because you know You can spend hours on an FIT And so I think yeah, well, but and I know there are people that would that do More and less. Um, and so I think everybody's business model is very different but for my FITs, um that's where i'm at and then I addressed accordingly, of course, depending on the the situation of Uh each one.

I don't you know, I don't um I don't do discounts, uh, per se, but I do have to adjust it just to make sure it fits into what the, the, the trip is calling for.

Steph: Yeah. We'll link to our article on charging fees, which is really great. If this is your first time tuning in and you haven't run across anything, there's a lot of great ideas from advisors in there and verbiage.

And just to kind of recap grace, cause I think this is really, this is really cool. And what I love to see is that you started out at 200 and then you did a 50 percent discount. You bumped up to 400, did a 50 percent discount, and now you're at 500. And this is over the course of Like two years that you've done this.

So this is amazing to see. Um, and I think very inspirational for others that are, are worried about charging fees and feeling like 500 is just too much. If you listen to a lot of our travel agent chatter podcast episodes, people talk about how they've just raised their fees over the time as they become more comfortable and recognize the value that they're bringing to clients.

Um, and you mentioned, let me, um. Okay, so you mentioned talking about you're charging these fees, but with FITs, it's really easy [00:54:00] for them to be a time suck and not use your time properly. So one of the things that I love that you do, and I, I feel like this must be rooted in the product or project management, um, side of things, but you started timing yourself to see.

Where in the process things were taking longer, um, and where you were losing money to try to optimize how much you were earning and make it so that your process was a lot more, um, That flowed a lot better. So can you tell us more about that and how you did it?

Grace Camoglu: Yeah, I think I had, I knew that I was spending a lot of time on, um, on my FITs.

And I think there was a big chunk of it that I knew was because I was new. And, you know, when you're learning a new destination from, from a travel advisor standpoint, or just trying to find suppliers and all that, there's already just this, um, it's going to be a sunk cost. You're going to, and, and. And that's fine.

Um, but I just felt like it's still really interesting to see how much time it took me to put together a proposal or to put together just the quoting part of it or put together the overall part to see, um, where things are. And so the other part was actually I knew at some point, maybe. I would want to have some help, uh, maybe it's just like on, on, on, on very specific areas.

And so I thought, if I don't know how much time it takes me to do it, how can I ask someone to help me do some certain part of it? It's so forward thinking. It is, it's really smart. So I, I, I started tracking my time, which is probably not what most people do voluntarily, but I, I'm one of those people that I've always found it very useful.

Um, and I think that when my, when my time is tracked, I'm actually very, I'm much more attuned to being focused and what it is that I'm doing. And I did not get distracted as much because I [00:56:00] know I'm getting, I'm tracking myself. So I use Clockify. Okay, we'll link to that. Any tracker could do, but I just thought, well, let's do this.

And I, I track based on client and then I also track based on task. Um, and so then, and then I. You know, every time I start something, then I try to time it. And so I think the idea here was just to see, um, of course, how much time I'm spending, but also how, how am I improving? Cause I think that was the biggest thing was, can I reduce the amount of time I spend on, on doing things?

So, uh, for example, well, this one's not a client one, but I'll just give an example for newsletters first. Uh, I think in the beginning it would take me like eight hours to do a newsletter. I think I just, um, really. I write a lot then I have to edit everything down and then it takes me time to do a pictures and I there's just and it's a very long newsletter.

I'm like, oh, and so I thought, okay, how, how can I make this shorter, uh, and try to improve the, the cadence of it. And so I thought eight hours, this let's reduce it. And so now over the course of time, I, I'm down to three hours. Um, of course, I'm, I'm also, you know, perhaps I'm not putting in as many pictures because every picture requires formatting, right?

So, so I'm also trying to adjust the, the parts of it, but, but the newsletter itself is also shorter. And so I think there's just some level of, oh, if I do it shorter than I can maybe also do it a little bit more often. So I realized, you know, just there's a lot of other benefits to that. And so I thought, but if I can make three hour newsletters.

That's, um, that's okay. And if it needs to go, you know, a little bit more, sometimes that's fine. And I think sometimes even itinerary proposals, um, of, uh, I don't have the specific number right now for that part of it, but just to give you an example, I think if [00:58:00] I looked at how much time I spent on my, on like a client, it could be over well over 40 hours.

I mean, it was just, you know, and all that. And, and I think my goal is to get it to 20. And if I can get it to 10, it'd be great. But I, I, you know, I, I definitely have to do some other, um, things around that, but I think if I can get it to 20 where I'm working on, of course, an itinerary where I'm already familiar with the suppliers I like to use and the hotels that I really like and all that.

So I always know if I have to add another. Um, city and I need to do the, um, uh, research on it, then I probably have to add in like a good five to 10 hours, um, on that. But once I have that and I like it, then, you know, that's, that's the goal. And then I think once I can hit 20, then probably we can start looking at how else I can further.

You know, optimize, but there's still a lot of destinations that are, you know, new to me from a advisor standpoint, not new to me from a knowledge standpoint, but I think I'm also getting a little bit faster on how I'm getting through my, uh, supplier vetting and the template making and the task list on a matey kind of thing.

So I think all of those also, I'm, I'm getting a little bit faster on it too.

Steph: And you mentioned that. So you do this. You track by project as well as by so by like the trip, but also by the task. So walk us through some of the tasks for booking and research that that you're tracking. Like, how do you break it down?

Um, how do you break down the process?

Grace Camoglu: So I think, so I use it within the Clockify verbiage, but they have it where it's under a client. So I do set up the clients there and then they have a project. So I just call that the trip name. And for me, I have like, so I might have a project and then it automatically ties to that [01:00:00] client.

And then the other part was a task. So I use their tags for this. And that's just because it was just easier for me to report on it. Um, so that I can see what I'm spending in general on, yeah, on the regardless of client. So, you know, it could be, um, maybe that just the, the discovery call, but more importantly for me was actually how long it takes for me to get the itinerary together.

How long for me to actually put it in Access, my itinerary builder. Um, how much is, how long does it take for me to do the booking? And then, for example, then servicing for follow up, you know, it can include like follow up emails and, uh, you know, all of those leading up to the departure, uh, you know, catch all.

But I, I'm much more concerned about the, the middle parts because I think those are parts that actually can be reduced. I think for me also tracking how much time I spend on email, responding back to them is also helpful for me to know. I could probably be A little bit, you know, shorter with some of the things that I need to talk about, uh, and stuff in that part, but I don't think the amount of time savings is as great as if I can improve the efficiency on the, um, the, the quoting, the actual putting in the itinerary builder and the booking.

Yeah. The biggest parts where I spent a lot of time.

Steph: Well, it's so neat because you're able to run a report and see which tasks are taking a disproportionate amount of your time. And then you can focus on streamlining those and then that helps you better price your services as well. Because if you get to a point, say in four years where you're like, the level of service that I'm providing is it's that 10 hours of research for every FIT or, you know, whatever it is.

And you're like, I want to be making 70 an hour. This is how much I need to be charging. So it gives you really real world data to make decisions, which I think is neat and not something I [01:02:00] have heard before. So thank you for sharing.

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Marketing & Sales

Steph: Well, let's move into our next segment, which is kind of talking about marketing sales, that sort of thing.

So how do you market your client to North American or how do you market your? Business to North American clients when you're based in Switzerland. Is there anything different that you're doing or how do you get all your leads?

Grace Camoglu: Oh, yeah, this one was um, I think generally word of mouth and my network Uh, I don't know.

I I don't know if I do anything differently in that standpoint I'm sure everybody probably does the same Uh, I think from that standpoint and then of course their social their social media, but for me, it's mostly more Word of mouth network and the newsletter. So I think because I, in my prior job, I also worked on newsletters and um, email campaigns, nurturing campaigns, and a lot of those, uh, items.

I'm, I'm much more comfortable with it. So it was easy for me to just start with knowing I, I want to work on, uh, having a lead magnet. I want to build up the website. Uh, folks. Some content I and then from that standpoint try to Just help direct people towards, you know, you might be interested in learning.

I don't know first timer tips to switzerland. [01:04:00] I have an article for that Uh, I have a lead magnet where you know, if you're coming to visit switzerland, here are some tips for you and I think just being able to get people who are interested in that topic and I provide them the information they need and hopefully then as they stay in touch with me through the newsletters that they can reach out to me at some point.

Um, and it's not a immediate gratification, instant gratification game. Uh, it's definitely one that takes, uh, time, but that's okay. I mean, I think from the standpoint of. It's also not about the direct person who's, who's my newsletter subscriber. I mean, there is certainly that, but I actually find that, for example, my sister and brother in law, probably some of the bigger referrals I have, they themselves, they.

They love to plan their own trips, you know, and, uh, and they're very good at it. So, but they have people that they know that would love help. And so they, they point them towards me and, and several and quite a few other referrals. I like that. Some of them are from, from clients, but some of them are actually from people that either know me or are on my newsletter, but they just say, Oh, but I know someone else who's going to Switzerland.

it may be then you can help them with Switzerland or frankly, you know, other European countries too. I've had where, you know, I might not mention that's my focus, but I certainly am happy to help. And so I think that's the main part is from, from that is the word of mouth and just trying to stay, give relevant information out there through the newsletter and the

Steph: website.

Yeah, we're going to link to well, we'll link to your website so people can check it out. But, um, the, the lead magnet is the tips for first time visitors to Switzerland. So that's a great thing. If people want to check it out and, and see, [01:06:00] um, how Grace is doing that. But one of the things I know you mentioned when we were chatting earlier was that even before you had the newsletter, you had the newsletter sign up on your site and you had the league met.

Lead magnets so that you were getting those whenever you were ready to send out the newsletter And that was something I know with HAR like the first maybe four months I didn't have a newsletter sign up and it You know because it's a little bit sad when you first start out and your newsletter list is eight people or whatever it is A little disheartening.

Um, but the earlier you can get started with those. So as soon as you're starting your website, even if you only get six people signed up during your first, you know, four months, that's six people you didn't have before that you can market to that can turn into leads. So something I would strongly recommend is getting a newsletter, sign up on your site or a lead magnet, even if you don't plan on sending newsletters yet.

And you use mailer light, right? For your email campaigns.

Grace Camoglu: Yes. Yes, I do. I do. Okay.

Steph: We'll, we'll link to that for, for people that are interested. They have a free program, which is really popular with a lot of, um, travel advisors. Uh, let's see. So do you have any, um, secret sauce you have to closing sales? Um, I know you like to have like a, not face to face, but a zoom to zoom, uh, discovery call so you can actually see them.

What are, what are some things you do to help close the sale?

Grace Camoglu: So I think one of the things I do, yes, I do. I really always want to have a call and preferably video call. And so whether it's on Zoom, Meet, FaceTime, WhatsApp, you know, any, any of that I'll take. I think there's only been one time when I've had to do a phone call.

And it turned out fine. But I think it's just really important to have them Get the trust in me. And I mean, of [01:08:00] course, a lot of these are referrals. And so there's already a level of trust. But I think at the end of the day, you know, you're working with, you know, and from their standpoint, they're working with someone who is going to be handling their credit card and also has a passport information.

And it's just in handling this investment of a trip. You know, it's not just, um It's time. It's money. It's also this, um, it's just this experience that they're going to have, and they're going to have someone else in charge of it. So for me, it's really making sure that I can meet with them, and they can see how I do my how my processes we go through any other questions that are comfortable with it, but it's also so that I can get to know them because how they, you know, the body language and how they respond to my, my questions or the, the, the types of conversation that I even like to listen to how they talk to each other.

And I can understand where they're coming from, because oftentimes I will then eventually want to work with me one one lead contact. Um, and so. It's good for me to know how they interact with the other people in the group. And sometimes I do work with multiple families, whether it's, uh, you know, couples or a few families together.

And I actually want at least one person from every, every group on that call, on one call together. Uh, and, and oftentimes actually, when that happens, uh, the other, part of the party. They all join in. So it's actually quite a sizable call sometimes, but it's really helpful, I think, for us to see how the dynamic is in that sense.

So I feel like there's that level of trust and then the standpoint of answering the questions that they, they have. And then I also try to provide, I mean, my discovery calls are They're complimentary, but oftentimes I'm also just trying to provide information because if they feel like at the end of the day they still want to work on their own, I want them to feel like the time with me was still valuable, and maybe on a different trip they might want to work with me, or maybe they have other people that want to come to [01:10:00] Europe.

Because You know, so from that standpoint, it's just trying to make them feel like working with me will make them just save time, effort, energy, whatever it is. So I think from that standpoint, I just try to make sure that they see how I can help them. And oftentimes I would say it's been successful. Yeah, you have a really high

Steph: close ratio with leads.

Grace Camoglu: Yeah, yeah, pretty much. Um, for the ones that I'm on a call with, uh, it's, it's, we've been able to have a relationship, a working relationship with. So it's been really, it's been exciting. I think, uh, again, I think the, the way that they come to me is helpful because of how they already, they already have a need.

They, they know they're already coming into Europe. I think that's the other thing. Some people perhaps work with their clients much earlier on, or for a different reason. Mine are that they know, Okay. And they usually do have kids, but not, not always. I'm working with a lot more seniors too, um, but a lot of them have kids, so they have certain breaks.

They already know. I want to go to Europe for this break. Um, so then This amount of

Steph: time.

Grace Camoglu: It's like, it's like very specific. So, it's more about, uh, can you help me because I've got so much going on, and I, I want to have this trip. I need this trip, but I just need help getting And so for me, it's like, great, let's, let's do this, you know, uh, yeah,

Steph: I liked the way when, when we talked earlier, you mentioned about, um, like, it's kind of like looking at their love language and how they talk and want to interact because everyone has a different way.

You know, some people are going to be like, I want straight to the point, like, Cut out all the fluff for me. I don't need that. Other people want to build a relationship, have a more, you know, chat a little bit, move into things. So getting to know that, and then getting to know the interdynamics, I think is also really smart because, [01:12:00] um, you can see.

Yeah, seeing those interrelationship dynamics is always really insightful. So, um, let's see. Well one thing I wanted to check now It's been two years So what kind of growth have you seen? From your business because I know you mentioned it it had changed a little bit in terms of the amount people are spending from when You first started besides it growing in the numbers of people working with you

Grace Camoglu: So I think when I think part of it I'm also better understanding how I, how I book and, um, what type of things that I'm also trying to help the clients be aware of in terms of what's available for them.

So I think from the standpoint of before, it was probably more of, they tell me what kind of trip they want and what they want to do. And I'm like, okay. And, and then, and, and I just try to help that. And then I've, I've realized, you know, I'm doing more. I know what my clients are liking from the past trips.

I know what the, I also know from my standpoint, what I think would be great for them, um, You know, with the combination of knowledge that I've had now, where it's like, I think your kids could really like XYZ, and so I think it's that standpoint of, um, being able to suggest things that maybe they haven't even thought of.

It might be at a higher price point, but I will, but I will suggest it if I find, if I think there's value in it. I think is the thing here. So I realized that I am able to suggest things that are things that add value, but also from my standpoint, sometimes can also help in terms of what What the type of where the spend is going and making sure it's in the right place.

So, for example, a concrete, more concrete example would be, for example, in a hotel. So maybe they just say, well, just take whatever is [01:14:00] basic. Uh, you know, we're trying to make sure we just have a clean room with a bathroom inside. And it's like, okay, you know, I'll find a city. Here's a hotel I like. We're going to go for the room.

But, you know, it's, it's, it's fine. But now I'm like, Oh, I think now this hotel would be really good. It's more centrally located. You're also getting I think this room because you're going to be there for a week. Some people only stay a couple days, but you're going to be there a week. I think a little bit bigger rooms probably going to be better.

It's all start perhaps with the proposal at that level. because I feel like it's actually much better fit. And then if I feel like I still would prefer to give them an option and maybe it's like, you know, um, an alternative option and it perhaps is at a different price point and it's a little bit lower and that way they can decide if they feel like it's just worth, you know, where we want to spend the money.

And I would say most of the time, what I've suggested is more in line with what they What would be nice because it's also a better experience. I think that's the other part is, uh, you know, you don't know what you don't know. And so I think it's more of me being able to say, I think you would actually enjoy this experience a little bit better.

And so I think that standpoint and then the other one is actually the suppliers that I work with. I'm also able to now better able to decide which suppliers I work with so I can still get better Service, um, and being able to provide everything that I have and all things equal. But now, perhaps the, for example, maybe the amount of commission that I can get might be a little bit better.

Also, because, as you mentioned in the very beginning with host agencies, the tiers that the host agency is part of. In that sense, it's also right. That's that's the part of it. Um, or there might be some perks or amenities that I can then offer, you know, so maybe commissions all the same, and that's fine.

But maybe I can also give them some extra perks because they're in that level of [01:16:00] room. So it's, it's one of those where I feel like what What they can get out of that from, uh, as I worked along these couple years, I feel like I'm able to at least add a little bit more added value from that standpoint, too.

Technology & Time Management

Steph: Yeah, exactly. Now, I, I know you use a ton of technology. Um, I. I wanted to move into the talking about the technology, um that you're using So you have a huge tech stack that you use and we will put the complete list in the show notes So don't feel like as you're listening to this Being like whoa, there's a lot to write down.

Do not worry. It'll be on the landing page for this but um, What what tech platforms are you using to run your agency? Because I know the the main one Um, you had started out and you had thought that hub spout like that you could use HubSpot's free version and just customize it to the travel industry, but you ended up not going that route.

So let's start there and then we can expand.

Grace Camoglu: I had used HubSpot in my last job and, and really liked it and we were on the free for a long time and then eventually moved to the paid version and it was also really good. But It was, I think for someone going into a new industry and new business, I think the amount of configuration I would have had to do for hub.

So I just, it didn't make sense for my time considering I had to do so many other things. And I thought I should get a travel specific CRM. So, um, having said that I did start with, uh, uh, um, Google sheets. First, I'm a, I'm a big spreadsheet user. So actually I started there. Um, but then I realized I think two customers in that it was going to be I needed something more.

It was like, it was ridiculous. I, I do so many other things still in spreadsheets and, and, uh, but that one, I think it was just, it was hard. I think it was even just hard for me to keep [01:18:00] track of all my stages of where I was going to be. And then there was a level of, of course, the tasks and automating the tasks and then the emails that you can send and all that.

So it was just one of those where I thought, Oh my goodness. just being able to track where my clients would be in terms of the stages already alone. I couldn't, I knew my Google, she would just go, um, outdated, like so quickly. So I, so then I thought, okay, let's do, um, a CRM. I am on travel joy. Uh, and so this is travel.

I mainly use it for the, the CRM part, the invoicing. Um, I did have to make a decision that I was okay with just doing things in USD. I think now they've changed it where you can actually invoice in other currencies, but I do work with a lot of suppliers that do charge local and not, um, in USD. So there's a lot of converting going on and, and then I have to, I invoice separately just For some, some supplier invoices that are local, but it's, uh, but for the 99 percent of my needs, um, I use travel joy for the invoicing and then for the task automation and emails.

And then my. Um, I tend to what

Steph: to sorry, just really quick. One of the things you mentioned with the CRM that I think is is worth mentioning is that, um, you know, you were there's a CRM that was offered with your host agency, but you made the concerted effort. To go with a third party one. Would you mind touching on that really quick?

What your thought process was?

Grace Camoglu: Oh, yeah, I think so. I think perhaps this is just my approach in general. I just usually like to have control over my own my own platforms And I think it's one of those where my host agency offers a lot of different tools. [01:20:00] Um I'm being one of them, but I and I, I tried it, but I think I realized, you know, I, I would like to be able to have the ability to just control everything that I needed on it.

And I'm not looking to. You know, like leave, but if you were to switch at all, um, so perhaps this is just more of a message to others that are new, you know, if you're ever thinking yo

u might switch at all, then you would need to go through a big export and download process and then migrate, you know, data migration process.

And so I think from that standpoint. I just felt like this was just a simpler way for me to do it. Travel Joy already allowed me to, would allow me to do a lot of those, uh, parts to it. Um, and then I think also at that time, I also wasn't finding the, the tool that we had as intuitive as Travel Joy. So that was another reason why I went that route.

Steph: Yeah, that's a great point because, um, you know, no one goes into a host thinking they're going to leave, but it's really important to understand what happens to your data. Um, and what the tool is. Able to do like say you wanted to switch because you didn't find it as intuitive Checking ahead of time with any software Um if there is data exports and how you can get your data out Checking in your contracts with your host agency to see if you are using their crm or in in some cases with host agencies using their crm like I know for travel leaders and maybe signature to maybe Virtuoso, I'm not sure but um If you want to use the marketing programs of the consortia, you have to use a certain CRM because that's the CRM that talks to their marketing program.

So understanding that and understanding like the drawbacks of going with your own, but understanding what needs to happen. Um, ahead of time. If you need to take that data out, if there's going to be a cost for it, if they don't let you export it out, or if there isn't the capability of exporting it out, [01:22:00] that's a really big thing.

Um, so thanks for thanks for touching on that grace.

Now, what are some of your other favorite? Um, maybe give your top two or three favorite. Other pieces of technology that are instrumental to your business.

Grace Camoglu: Well, I don't think I could live without canva So that one I I had before and I was even for I think I was always on premium I was just like I can't go back.

Uh, so I I do use that. Um, I also This is a really, this is not a travel specific one, but I find using, maybe you'll put in the show notes, but I think called Flycut. It's a clipboard manager, but it's just for cutting and pasting because I think for my, like in my itineraries, for example, I think I mentioned already, but I use AXIS and that actually is through TPI and, and Signature.

So I use access, but I do a lot of cutting and pasting of things. And it's just really helpful to have a clipboard manager to do that. And that was just something that I'm, uh, I,

Steph: I, I looked that up grace. Cause I was kind of curious, uh, but it is only for max and iOS, but. But what's neat about it, cause I was looking it up is, you know, normally you do control or open Apple C and then V to paste, but this allows like a history of your pasting.

So you don't have to keep going back. You can be like eight times ago, I copy and pasted this and I want to select that and now I want to paste it, which is really nice because I was like, what is fly cut? I had to look it up. We'll link to it for all you lucky, uh, Apple users out there.

Grace Camoglu: Um, Yeah, and then I think maybe, I mean, there's so there's there's other parts, I will say, just to throw it out there for Merrill.

I did. So maybe if you when you put it in the show notes. So there is actually a level of [01:24:00] what I started with. And then what I'm doing now. So for example, with Merrill, I did do the free one. But now I do premium. And that's mainly because of the conditional logic for the workflow automation. So it's, it's that I and I did it.

I used MailChimp before in my old job. It's same, you know, with the same type of features and all that. So I think when you can start using tools that can help with any, any automation of, of things, it's just really helpful, I think, from that standpoint. And then, of course, I think the other one, probably that I need.

I use a lot, uh, Trello and what's the other one, uh, Bitly. So, and also it allows me to track. Um, so if I have to send links to different places outside of my email program and the website and I want to be able to track it, then I can use Bitly to do a trackable link. And then that helps me also see how, how things are from an analytical standpoint.

And Trello, of course. That's for my task management. Just, I do, I do my personal and professional. In Trello? Yes.

Steph: That's fantastic. Well, let's move in, um, I want to get a little bit of wisdom from you now that you've been on your journey for a couple years. So what are some, I know you have a big list you sent over, so we're going to put all of these in the show notes.

So I don't know if you want to go through your list, but I would love to hear some of your favorite places. That you love to learn within the industry that have really helped you kind of accept accelerate your growth.

Grace Camoglu: Oh, yeah, I think that so definitely the class that I had done with you all in the very beginning.

I think after that, [01:26:00] of course, there's always the supplier and destination training. I think that's just a really given. But I think beyond that, there's there's There's I think the level of podcasts, and I know you'll have a list but there's been a few that I think were really helpful in hearing. I think, for example, from like Masters in Travel, Tin Lounge, Trade Secrets, so I think from a, either whether it's from a client experience or marketing or strategy, how you run your business standpoint or from the standpoint of what's going on in the news, like just trade.

And, uh, obviously the, the hard part, hard podcast as well. I think when it comes to, especially when you're new, you don't, you don't know what publications there are for you. That would be good to listen to. And, and. What's relevant and not, and what are other people thinking and all that? So I think a lot of those travel related podcasts were really helpful.

I think the hard one, I actually inhaled from end to end, uh, when I was just like, not just starting out, but just in beginning, but it was also more of the standpoint of I'm now in this stage of my. Of my business. I now have these types of questions. And so now I can go back to, you know, whatever episodes for whichever podcast or trainings.

And I can say, now I need to know better about this part and understand what are people doing. I think it's just more of understanding when is the right time to start getting the next dump of information to process through and see how it works for you. Um, and then I think the, and then The Facebook groups.

So there's a lot, as you know, a lot of travel. Um, a lot of the groups are on Facebook platform. And so I think a lot of them from the standpoint of, oh, there's some great ones. Um, I think, you know, travel advisor selling Europe. Italy, British Isles, um, the Austria, Switzerland, Germany [01:28:00] one, and, you know, my host agency has one, and there's, there's, I think, Canva, Travel Joy, I, I have a list for you that you can send.

I, I feel like, I really, I really get a lot of really helpful information, and it's just from a standpoint, not only from the standpoint of, oh, here's my question. that I finally feel comfortable asking because, you know, oftentimes I also just don't want to ask anything, but now I'm comfortable asking questions, and it's something that I, I need for the specific thing that I couldn't find already in the archives.

And then the other side of it is sometimes when other people are asking, Either I'm able to contribute or I realize that's something that I should know or you know good to know right you don't know what you don't know and when someone mentions then it's like oh that's something that's really important for me to flag and save or know or act upon so I think from that standpoint those have been really really helpful in terms of the the growth.

And I think one final one I'll mention is the, oh, two final ones I'll definitely have to mention. One is, um, the Travel Pro Theory. I think you actually had Kate Thomas as the, as a guest and that's actually how I found her digest. So, really, really helpful, but I will say definitely one of those where I also have to go back to it when I'm ready for that topic.

Um, and so, and then the final one is I think the, uh, the final one is the Masters in Travel Accelerator. So I think that one has been also great from strategic and marketing client experience side of things.

Steph: That's fantastic. We will link to all of those. Um, so if you're feeling overwhelmed, don't worry.

Check out the, um, the link in the description, but one question before we get into our indispensable segment. So, um, what's one thing you wish you would have known before. You started your travel agency that you wish someone would have told you or at the beginning of [01:30:00] your agency Where you're like this would have been really helpful to know.

Um and change things a lot for me.

Grace Camoglu: I think I didn't realize How much time that custom fits would take? I I feel like people mention it and then there's also uh Reference to it. Sometimes when someone says I used to do them, but now I do, you know, something else, uh, do something easier when I realized what I had done was I went new into a space and ended up doing what I think is really fun and interesting, but it is probably one of the hardest and most challenging ways of doing travel.

And then add to it that I, a lot of my trips, I actually don't work with a tour operator or DMC. And so I have to piece it together myself due to various reasons. And so that makes it even more where I put it on myself in terms of the level of complication or just a level of pieces that you need to put together.

And so I think from that standpoint, I was like, Oh, I really chose probably one of the most complicated ends to start on. Um, but. And I think that would so perhaps, you know, when someone have told me that's the most complicated part without stop me probably not because I knew this would be the part that I want to do, but I think from the standpoint of knowing the number of hours and how could I have helped myself start.

Going quicker or are making myself more efficient from the get go. So, you know, for example, it took me a bunch of tries before I realized the, the, um, putting it together. I think for the horror magazine. I actually have a article, but I have a spreadsheet on there that I use, but I. I had to [01:32:00] eventually say, I need to figure out a much more sustainable way and so I don't also forget any components that I need to quote or how to keep track of them.

So I was like, let me at least use A spreadsheet and and created a template for myself to do that, and I have a template for myself for other things, you know, which, uh, when people need to ask about what type of Swiss train pass, uh, should they use or should they rent a car or do one of the train passes?

Like, I think a lot of those I just created a template and and just try to put in all the factors to it. And I think it took me. You would be surprised, but the number of times I had to do it one by one before realizing I should have done it too. I've

Steph: done it too.

Grace Camoglu: So, I think it's just, yeah, maybe just someone telling me, I don't know how you can help create yourself a template if you haven't done it before, to be honest, but I guess that's what I wish I had done.

Steph: Well, I will say it is really impressive that you started out going out into FITs because it is a really challenging way to enter the industry and you've managed to make it happen. So we'll link to your, um, Host Week Magazine article that you were referencing. But the other thing too, when we had chatted, um, earlier, we had talked about, One of the things you don't expect when you're becoming an entrepreneur and starting up a company is how lonely and how doubtful you like, you suddenly are like questioning yourself when you used to be like, you know, thinking of yourself as a totally competent person.

And suddenly you're like, wow, I don't know anything about this industry. And. I don't, I'm trying to start up this business and can I be charging fees? Do I have enough knowledge to be charging fees? And that is something that is very, very normal for all of you new advisors that are listening out there.

Like you went through [01:34:00] this grace. I went through this when I started HAR, I went through, you know, I was well embedded in the host agency community having, um, Started and built my parents host agency division and when I left their company and started har those four months where I wasn't plugged into the industry because I was working on my site, I was thinking, gosh, do I even have enough information and knowledge to make this happen?

And suddenly my self esteem was Surprisingly low. It was, it was very interesting, but know that you're not alone and that it does get better. At least that's been my experience. I don't know about you, Grace.

Grace Camoglu: Oh, I, yes, the isolation, I, that is definitely one part. And I think that's why, for example, the Facebook groups that I mentioned, or frankly, any of the other things that I mentioned, I think where Once I realized where they were and how I could find them, I started to feel less isolated.

And I think that's probably what drove me to a lot of the listening to these different things and joining some of the, uh, the groups or The summits or something and and I eventually finally got to do my first conferences this year Or last year end of last year, uh, and so, you know, you just realize there's so many people else that are There's so many others that are actually feeling the same way but no one Sometimes says it.

And so at least when you can touch base with people and you're getting questions answered, and you're also just getting some, you know, fulfillment of the soul when it comes to just, you know, it's not even just just knowing that people are there for you. Exactly the connecting. And so I think that part.

So yeah, it's a I think it's just for the newer advisors to know, I Bye. You're not alone. But I think when you start a new business in itself, it will feel like that. But that's why I actually also attend entrepreneurship events and local meetups here. [01:36:00] Yes. So I, you know, they are not in my business, but they are also people that are starting out or Or at least they're just happy to lend a ear.

And just, you know, I think from that standpoint.

Steph: And, and I found too, like when I, um, started Har, I would go to a lot of entrepreneurial events and, uh, even if they're not, there's a lot of values. still, even if they're not in your sector, because there can be a lot of cross pollination of ideas that you see that something very common in another sector that they're doing and you're thinking, wow, we should be doing that in travel.

So I found it was a great source of inspiration. Um, and I would highly recommend all travel advisors, whether new or experienced, if you haven't already built up a really strong network and worked on. Building relationships with others in the industry that can help your, make you not feel as lonely, number one, but number two, uh, can really help, uh, blow up your business.

Indispensable

Steph: So, let's see. We are gonna move into our last segment, which is our indispensable segment where we ask people where book person or technology has been indispensable to the growth of your agency. So what, what has it been for you, grace.

Grace Camoglu: Well, I think since I'm two years in, growth for the agency is from the standpoint of sales and clients, um, from that standpoint.

And so I think with that, it would have to be the, the, my, my network. But I think if we're going to go for a little bit more, um, targeted, I would say my, my family, because they are the ones and still do just. Try to send people my way. Um, and I'm not, I'm not even saying like they, but they are my, my in laws of the in laws.

So, you know, they, they are even saying, it's really like, it's really heartwarming. And, you know, first of all, I appreciate the, the, the, the, [01:38:00] the referral, but I think for other standpoint, it's also just the, the trust in, you know, the, the in laws in law of sending people. And so I think from that standpoint, you know, I'm, I feel like.

Very lucky, uh, that and grateful that I have a Network where people feel like they just want to support me and provide any help, uh, in my direction, uh, for, from a business standpoint. So, yeah. And I think for me, word of mouth and referrals is still really, really critical. And I think that's where the growth would continue to be.

But of course, with, you know, marketing and all that, we will grow in other ways too. But I think from this one, this one's a very important. Aspect of the growth that I think is important to pay attention. Yeah.

Steph: Well, I'm really excited for you because During year three to year six is where there's a really strong increase, um, in the amount of sales for most advisors.

And you're, you've been following the curve perfectly so far. So I think there's a lot of fun things coming up for you in the next few years. Um, well, Grace, thank you so much for joining us today. You've given such valuable insights. It's for both the new and experienced advisors for people that may be considering moving abroad.

Um, and thank all of you for tuning in whether you're watching the video or listening to the audio. Uh, we really appreciate you taking the time. I know there's a ton of info out there and there are a ton of things to do in life and yet you chose to be here. To tune in for an episode of travel agent chatter.

So, um, we would love it if you enjoyed this episode or any of the past episodes, if you could leave us a review or a star rating on your favorite podcast platform to help some others find the show. Um, and you can find the show notes. At hostagencyreviews. com slash t a c and then clicking on episode [01:40:00] 32 and that will have all of the show notes the links to the resources today Um grace, thanks again for joining us.

Grace Camoglu: Oh, you're very welcome. It was my pleasure. Thank you so much for this opportunity

Steph: Absolutely. Well, we will be back again next quarter everyone with another episode of travel agent chatter So until then happy travels and we'll see you soon. Take care

Outro

Steph: You can read a transcript, view the show notes, and watch a video of today's episode all in one handy dandy place. Head on over to hostagencyreviews. com slash T A C, and from there, click on episode 32. So for those of you who have stuck around to the very, very, very, very, very end, congratulations, I'm going to treat you with a fun travel factoid, and that is this: that Switzerland has the highest per capita chocolate consumption in the world, with the average Swiss person eating about 23 pounds of chocolate per year, which is very envious. I hope it is all dark chocolate.

On the other hand, I am very disappointed to report to you that the United States only eats about half that in chocolate.

Which I clearly belong in Switzerland. So, one more visit, or one more reason to visit Switzerland and also to use experts like Grace because they can tell you where the local chocolate factory is. So, thank you all for listening.

We will chat again next time on Travel Agent Chatter.